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Still working at 65 for a small company? Why Medicare pays first

September 24, 2026

Show Notes

Eddie and Betty's Conversation

Betty

Welcome back to The American Retirement Advisor podcast. I'm here with Eddie, as always, and Eddie, I have to tell you, when I read Ian Schaeffer's piece this week, I stopped cold at one sentence. It said the rule that decides who pays your medical bills at 65 comes down to a head count. A head count at your office.

Eddie

That one number, twenty, flips everything. Which insurer goes first, whether skipping Medicare costs you a penalty or just costs you money, all of it.

Betty

So who is this article really for? Because I feel like a lot of people assume this is a big-company problem.

Eddie

Ian Schaeffer is very direct about that. He says this matters most to whoever's working somewhere small. The family business, the eight-person office, the medical practice with three chairs and a front desk. That's the audience.

Betty

Which is a lot of people. Okay, so walk me through the flip. Above twenty employees, below twenty employees. What changes?

Eddie

It flips depending on which side of that line you fall on. If your employer has the larger workforce, your work plan pays first. Medicare sits behind it. For a smaller employer, Medicare pays first, and your work plan is expected to pick up whatever is left. Simple in theory, but the consequences of getting it wrong are not simple at all.

Betty

What happens if someone at a small company just never signs up for Part B? Like, they figure, I've got coverage through work, I'll skip it.

Eddie

Here's where Ian Schaeffer puts it perfectly. He says people get this backwards. They think skipping Part B means a late penalty. But at a small company, it's not usually the penalty you should worry about. It's the bills.

Betty

Oh, that's a meaningful difference.

Eddie

It really is. Because Medicare is supposed to be first in line. If you never signed up for it, the primary payer is just missing. And a plan that was designed to pay second may simply leave that first chunk of the bill unpaid. Nobody pays it.

Betty

So you're sitting there with a bill that fell through the gap between two insurers who are each waiting on the other.

Eddie

And the article says that literally happens, because Medicare doesn't automatically know your employer's size. Their own booklet says it: Medicare doesn't automatically know if you have other coverage. And their default assumption, in the absence of any information, is that your employer has at least twenty people.

Betty

Wait, so Medicare is out here assuming you're at a big company?

Eddie

Unless someone tells them otherwise, yes. A small-business worker can end up with both insurers waiting for the other to go first, and the fix is one phone call. The article gives the number for Medicare's Benefits Coordination and Recovery Center.

Betty

What's it?

Eddie

1-855-798-2627. You call with your employer's size and your plan details and you clear it up.

Betty

Okay, I want to come back to the math on Part B in a second, because that table in the article genuinely surprised me. But first, the counting. Because Ian Schaeffer is an engineer, and he went deep on how Medicare actually counts to twenty, and it is not what I expected.

Eddie

It's not how you'd count heads in your office, that's for sure. It's not just how many people showed up today. The rule is twenty or more employees for each working day in twenty or more calendar weeks, either this year or the year before.

Betty

They don't have to be consecutive?

Eddie

No, they don't. And part-time workers count the same as full-time. And here's the one that made me do a double-take: it's not just your company. It's your entire corporate family. Parent company, subsidiaries, sister companies. All of them.

Betty

Ian Schaeffer has a worked example in the article, right? I want you to tell people that one because it's wild.

Eddie

CMS's own training material has this scenario. Twelve-person subsidiary. Parent company has eighteen thousand employees. The answer from CMS: the employee count for Medicare purposes is eighteen thousand and twelve. The twelve people at that small office are playing by big-company rules.

Betty

So if you're at a tiny satellite location but your parent organization is enormous, your work plan is paying first.

Eddie

Exactly. And then there's another wrinkle Ian Schaeffer flags. If a company grows past twenty and stays there for twenty weeks, the work plan has to pay first for the rest of that year and all of the next year, even if they shrink back below twenty later.

Betty

So growing flips the rule fast, shrinking flips it slow.

Eddie

That's basically his phrase from the article. Which matters if you're watching your company downsize and wondering when the rules change for you.

Betty

Okay, what about the association plan situation? Because I feel like this is the trap he said he'd check first.

Eddie

This is a big one. A lot of small employers get coverage through some kind of group arrangement with other businesses. And if your plan is that kind of multi-employer setup, and even one employer in that group has at least twenty employees, the work plan pays first for everybody. Including you at your tiny company.

Betty

So you could be at a five-person shop, buying insurance through some association, and your plan pays first because somebody else in that association is big enough.

Eddie

Unless your plan filed what CMS calls a small employer exception. And that exception is narrow, approvals are only going forward, and the plan has to notify each person it applies to. So the two questions to ask HR are: is our plan a multi-employer or association plan, and has it filed a small employer exception for me specifically?

Betty

Get those answers in writing.

Eddie

The article says exactly that. Ask HR for the plan document page, and get it in documented form.

Betty

Alright, let's do the math. Because I said I'd come back to it and I meant it. The Part B numbers in Ian Schaeffer's piece.

Eddie

So the 2026 standard Part B premium is $202.90 a month. Full year, that's $2,434.80. And the deductible for the year is $283.

Betty

So you spend about $2,435 in premiums to have it. The question is how much does a bill have to be before Medicare's share covers that cost.

Eddie

Ian Schaeffer does the arithmetic right there in the article. One approved outpatient charge of about $3,327, and Medicare's 80% share alone equals a full year of premiums. That's the break-even.

Betty

One bill. Three thousand dollars.

Eddie

And then he shows what happens on a $10,000 procedure. Medicare's share is $7,773.60. And that $7,773 is the piece, he says, that a small-company plan might not pay if you skipped Part B.

Betty

Seven thousand dollars left on the table. That's not a rounding error, that's a serious problem.

Eddie

And that's the standard premium. Higher earners pay more under IRMAA, the income-related adjustment. The article points to a previous installment for that math, and I'd note that for anyone wondering exactly where they land on that scale, that's a great question to bring to one of our advisors at American Retirement Advisors.

Betty

Good call. Because those numbers shift based on your situation. Okay, paperwork. Nobody loves it but let's do it fast. What forms does a small-company worker actually need?

Eddie

Two things you'll need. CMS-40B, that's your Part B application. And CMS-L564, which your employer fills out to confirm your coverage came through current work. You send them both to Social Security together.

Betty

What if your small company has closed or sold, and you can't get the employer to sign anything?

Eddie

Social Security has a backup list. Tax returns showing insurance premiums paid, W-2s with pre-tax medical contributions, pay stubs with premium deductions. Any of those can work.

Betty

Good to know. Now there are two things in the article that people might think count as proof and they don't, right?

Eddie

Yes, and this tripped me up too. That annual letter your employer sends about whether your drug coverage is creditable, the one that arrives before October 15th. People hold onto that thing. Social Security says it is not proof of group health plan coverage for Part B enrollment purposes.

Betty

So you can't use it to prove that.

Eddie

Not for that. And the other one: if your employer gives you a stipend to go buy your own insurance rather than offering a group plan, that individual coverage health reimbursement arrangement, an ICHRA, Social Security says that does not qualify for the Special Enrollment Period. You don't get the penalty-free window.

Betty

That's going to surprise some people. Because more small employers are doing that stipend approach.

Eddie

Very common in those shops. And the consequences of not knowing that are real.

Betty

Speaking of the drug coverage letter, the bar moved this year. Tell me what Ian Schaeffer says about that.

Eddie

For a long time the standard was 60%. A plan's drug benefit had to be at least that good to be considered creditable. The new bar is 73% for 2027, with 2026 as a transition year. So a plan that passed last year may not pass this year.

Betty

Which means you need to actually read that letter when it shows up, not just file it away.

Eddie

Read it. And if it says not creditable, the Part D late penalty is 1% of the national base premium for every full month you went without creditable coverage. For 2027, that base is $41.33 a month. It adds up.

Betty

And the penalty sticks around as long as you have Part D.

Eddie

For life. Also, the article has a warning before you act on that letter: if you have employer coverage and you add a Medicare drug plan, you may lose your employer coverage entirely. For yourself and your dependents. Ask HR before you enroll in anything.

Betty

That is a big thing to lose. Okay, now the Medigap window. This is the one that I think people really don't plan for, because it sounds like a future problem and then suddenly it isn't.

Eddie

The Medigap open enrollment period is six months. It starts the day you sign up for Part B. And here's the catch for small-company workers: if you take Part B at 65 while you're still working, that six-month window is probably going to close while you're still on your work plan. You might not even think about Medigap until you retire.

Betty

And by then the window is gone.

Eddie

But there's a rescue. When your group coverage ends, and it was a plan that pays after Medicare pays, you get a guaranteed-issue right. A second chance. And you have up to 63 days from the latest of three dates: when coverage ends, when you get notice that it's ending, or when a claim denial first tells you it ended.

Betty

Ian Schaeffer says put that date on the calendar the day you give notice. I love that as practical advice. It's the kind of thing you'd forget in the noise of retiring.

Eddie

63 days goes fast. And you want to know the exact rules on guaranteed issue rights in your specific situation, that's one I'd bring to our team at American Retirement Advisors, because the details matter a lot there.

Betty

There's a small bright spot at the end of that section too. The HSA thing.

Eddie

Yes. If you have a health savings account, you can use it to pay Part B premiums without tax. IRS Publication 969 says so directly. What you cannot do is use it for Medigap premiums. Part B, fine. Medigap, no.

Betty

Good distinction. Okay, so Ian Schaeffer ends the piece with what a Certified Medicare Planner actually does with all of this, and I thought it was a useful summary of why it's complicated enough to need a professional.

Eddie

He lists it out. They start with the count done Medicare's way, part-timers included, the whole corporate family, twenty weeks checked against this year and last. They ask about the association plan question and the small employer exception before anyone decides Part B can wait. They read the actual plan coordination language instead of assuming.

Betty

And they time everything together.

Eddie

Part B, the Medigap window, the drug coverage letter, the 63-day right when you retire. It's a lot of moving pieces and they interact in ways that are not obvious until something goes wrong.

Betty

And when things go sideways here, it means unpaid medical bills, or losing coverage, or a lifetime penalty. Not small consequences.

Eddie

And that engineering mindset we mentioned? He took it all the way to the source -- the actual regulations, not just the summaries. His conclusion was basically: it's stranger than it sounds, and it matters most to people at small companies. Which is a lot of retirees.

Betty

The team is reachable at 602-281-3898 if you want to sit down and work through your specific situation, because so much of what we talked about today depends on details that are particular to you and your employer.

Eddie

And there are workshops coming up. October 2nd, two locations: Foothills Library in Glendale at 10:30 in the morning, and Mustang Library in Scottsdale at 2:30 in the afternoon. Both at no cost to you.

Betty

You can register at 123easymedicare.com/medicare-workshop or call 877-220-1089. If you are within driving distance of either library and you're navigating this small-company question, that is a morning or afternoon very well spent.

Eddie

And read Ian Schaeffer's piece. The full article has the table with the Part B math, the exact regulation citations, and a lot of detail we moved through quickly today. It's worth having in front of you when you talk to someone.

Betty

The core thing I keep thinking about from this conversation is that for small-company workers, the risk isn't usually the penalty people dread. It's the gap nobody fills. And closing that gap starts with knowing how your employer actually gets counted. So go find out. Call HR, ask the questions, and then get a professional to look at the full picture with you. Thanks for listening today.

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